Thanks goes out to Rufus from Grad Student Madness, who sent me the link to this article in the New York Times by Frank Rich. It points out a great many things I have said all the time. All of this hoopla about the Reverend Wright fails to take into account that Wright is but one of a long line of nutty ministers, many of whom say things that are on a par with him. Yet, strangely enough, most of the people screaming the loudest about Wright seem to ignore a good many of these others. That could be well because, in a great many cases, many of them are sitting right in the pews where and when they spew their own particular brand of venom and don't seem to mind when politicians seek their support, while knowing all about their histories.
Following is a few sample snippets from the Times article dealing with McCain’s endorsement by pastor Ted Hagee, an endorsement McCain sought and received, which is covered in this Washington Post article. Please now, don’t take them out of context, I think there’s been quite enough of that lately-
"Since then, Mr. McCain has been shocked to learn that his clerical ally has made many other outrageous statements. Mr. Hagee, it’s true, did not blame the American government for concocting AIDS. But he did say that God created Hurricane Katrina to punish New Orleans for its sins, particularly a scheduled “homosexual parade there on the Monday that Katrina came.”
Rich goes on to say that-
"None of this is to say that two wacky white preachers make a Wright right. It is entirely fair for any voter to weigh Mr. Obama’s long relationship with his pastor in assessing his fitness for office. It is also fair to weigh Mr. Obama’s judgment in handling this personal and political crisis as it has repeatedly boiled over. But whatever that verdict, it is disingenuous to pretend that there isn’t a double standard operating here. If we’re to judge black candidates on their most controversial associates — and how quickly, sternly and completely they disown them — we must judge white politicians by the same yardstick."
Rich points out to great effect, in my opinion, that not only did John McCain know about the rantings of the late Reverend Falwell, and his latest Christian man-crush, pastor Hagee, but he purposely sought out their endorsements and support despite this-one might even go so far as to infer he sought out their support because of it. Yet, here is a YouTube video in which Hagee denounces the Roman Catholic Church, which he calls the “Great Whore”.
Here is what you will see there, in Rich’s words-
"What you’ll find is a white televangelist, the Rev. John Hagee, lecturing in front of an enormous diorama. Wielding a pointer, he pokes at the image of a woman with Pamela Anderson-sized breasts, her hand raising a golden chalice. The woman is “the Great Whore,” Mr. Hagee explains, and she is drinking “the blood of the Jewish people.” That’s because the Great Whore represents “the Roman Church,” which, in his view, has thirsted for Jewish blood throughout history, from the Crusades to the Holocaust."
Of course, McCain has distanced himself from Hagee’s comments, as well he should, but by the same token, he still sought out his support, despite the fact that Hagee’s beliefs are a matter of record, and in fact was, until recently, much more well known than Wright. In fact, here we see him as a featured personality on the Christian cable channel TBN.
Nor is Hagee the only such minister McCain has sought out. You also have the CNP, a somewhat secretive group whose membership includes or included Falwell, Robertson, Hagee, and Tim LaHaye.
Among their collective greatest hits are-
*God sent Hurricane Katrina to destroy New Orleans as punishment for the city’s collective vices and sins, and possibly out of anger for a scheduled gay pride parade.
*The Catholic Church is the “Great Whore” of Babylon and has the blood of the saints on its hands. The Pope is, in fact, the Antichrist.
*God will damn America because of these and other sins, including but not limited to abortion rights and gays, feminists, pagans, etc.-the reason he allowed 9/11, by the way, according to Falwell.
Here are a few more examples, directly from the Nola site.
– LeHaye once said that Catholicism is a “false religion” and called popes “antichrists.
– Weyrich has claimed that CNP is a group of “radicals working to overturn the present power structure in this country.”
– A speaker received a standing ovation at one CNP meeting when he suggested that AIDS was a sign from God that homosexuality was an “abomination.”
Is it any wonder John McCain has distanced himself from some of the more vociferous attacks on Obama regarding his association with Wright? He knows full well he is opening himself up to the same kind of criticism due to his own associations.
And look, I want to make it plain, people and religious groups have the right to support who they want, within the confines of First Amendment restrictions (something both sides have traditionally played fast and loose with), and they most certainly have the right to believe what they want. They even have a right to be self-serving hypocrites about it if they want. What they do not have the right to do is to expect to spew their bile and not be called on it when they attack others for doing what they themselves have done.
I don’t agree with most of Reverend Wrights crazy ideas. For example, I don’t believe for one minute that the United States government purposely developed the AIDS virus in some secret laboratory for the express purpose of killing gays, or blacks, or both, or whatever, because whatever target group they aimed it at are seditious troublemakers they felt must be eliminated for the social dangers they pose. Because I do not believe that, I will openly criticize Wright for promoting such an idea, regardless of his reasonings regarding and based on the Tuskegee Experiment.
On the other hand, I also do not agree, and will just as roundly denounce, those who promote the idea that God himself purposely created the AIDS virus for the express purpose of killing gays, or blacks, or both, or whatever, because whatever target group he aimed it at are sinners whom he feels he must punish collectively for their transgressions. Because I do not believe that, I will openly criticize them for promoting such an idea.
But, by the same token, I think I should ask what might be seen as an impertinent question to some. That is, if one of those two theories was the truth, just which one is the most likely?
Here is the simple fact. If you are an adherent of any religious group, be it Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, or Pagan, of any sect or denomination, I have some bad news for you. Sooner or later, you are going to hear some stuff you might find objectionable. Sooner or later, you are going to find that you disagree to some extent with the views of your pastor or priest.
Sooner or later, to be blunt, you are going to hear some crazy fucking shit. That’s just the name of that tune. I call it the flip side of Amazing Grace. Most people that notice it at all, however, usually hum this particular tune to themselves. It usually starts out with something like “Do they really believe this fucking crazy crap?”
There is a pretty good chance that at least deep down you do not. Or, it is very possible that, perhaps, you do. Whatever the case, you are probably going to get up at the end of the sermon, shake the pastor’s hands as you file out the door, and go home without giving it much thought. The next Sunday, you will be standing outside the same church, maybe smoking a cigarette while standing out talking to your friends and neighbors about fishing, the next football or basketball game, work, family, etc., until you finally all file in for the latest installment.
You go through this ritual because, social animals that we are, it is a way to connect with our communities in a way that gives human life some kind of deeper meaning-or tries to. If you disavow every person that attends a church service where nuttiness is preached, I hate to tell you, but you are going to be staying home, or at least away from religious services, all the time.
I should know, because that’s generally what I do. Do you want to vote for me for President? Yeah, that’s what I fucking thought. Of course, I’m not exactly the most sociable person in the world. Most politicians, by contrast, tend to be so by both nature and necessity.
On the other hand, just in case you might have some oddball idea I might make a great President, perhaps you might want to rethink your position. After all, even though I have denounced some of the late Reverend Falwell’s more incendiary remarks, I did on balance speak quite fondly of him in this post.
I was obviously being very sincere in these remarks, so just what am I up to now? One might be led to wonder just exactly who I am. Perhaps I have some dangerous, radical secret agenda unfitting for the highest office in the land. Yeah, it’s easy for me to denounce Falwell now that its politically expedient, huh?
Or, it could just be a matter of human beings being much too complicated to lump into one category based solely on a handful of issues and factors. Perhaps this applies to both Falwell and Wright. Maybe you have to look at a variety of factors and weight everything in the balance, and still they might not fit neatly into any one “good” or “bad” category-at least not all of the time.
Maybe things not always appropriately viewed in pure, stark, simple terms of black and white.
Sometimes, unfortunately, maybe they are.
14 comments:
McCain is the master of the traditional media. This is the age of Youtube and Myspace. The New York Times poll out today, puts McCain about 12 points down from Obama and Clinton both.
Wow, that's a wonderful post. And it is all too true the double standard here.
Some dude named Pascal boyer wrote a book on the religion that supposes we had an evolutionary advantage to believe in the supernatural (for safety and such, ghost stories stopped early humans from becoming lunch). At least that's what i've been led to believe its about, i haven't read it yet. i think your post sort of touches on that
For me the key difference was the way the media, but especially Democrats, accepted Wright as typical of Black Christians. My family is full of Black Christians (my grandfather's funeral was held at the African Methodist church) and none accept the Marxist absed racist Black Nationalism of Wright.
All my family members,and every Black Christian I've met,are inclusive, welcoming of Whites and others and never preach the sort of nonsense Wright does. I mean By the Gods he lifted parts of his speech to the NAACP from White Supremacists!
It felt racist that Whites just accepted Wright as typical of Blacks, in essence saying that all Black men were bitter kooks who you had to humor. I'm not big into the Christianity but it seems to me a protestant like Hagee saying Catholics suck (as protestants are required to believe) is a little different than Wright saying Black kids can't learn the same as Whites, or supporting the Sandinistas surpression of elections in the 80s.
Ren-
By the time the YouTube and MySpace generation get old enough to and/or care enough to vote consistently and dependably, YouTube and MySpace will probably long be passe'.
Graeme-
Thanks, I appreciate that. I think that where religion in general falls short is that it hasn't evolved past the boogie man stage, where every single myth, no matter how fantastical or unlikely, is taken to be literal fact. Such insistence on literalism, or fundamentalism, in every single particular whether appropriate or not, is among the chief culprits regarding the blood-stained rivalries and hatred between different religions. After all, there can only be one "only one way" in which every word is the absolute, literal truth.
Whenever there are seemingly contradictory versions and visions of God and sacred scripture, the end result can only be conflict.
Moreover, it is also worth noting that religion, like everything else, has to grow and evolve in order to remain relevant. Otherwise, what once started out in part as a way to provide answers to life's great questions, stagnates into something that just raises more questions than it answers, and will eventually be taken less seriously as the years progress, until finally it goes the way of the dinosaur.
Rob-I certainly am not a supporter of Wright, but on the other hand, how is his rants, on balance, any worse than some of the things you hear from conservative Christians? Take the AIDS question as just one example. Wright says the US government created it. Conservative Christians say God created it. Both say it was created in order to kill people "God" or the "US" don't like, for whatever reason. Not a lot of difference, is there?
My main point is the people that denounce Wright (of course, they are actually damning Obama by association) don't seem to mind the conservative version of the AIDS origin. In some cases, they might actually believe it.
Which, like I also said, if they believe that, they have that right. But, they shouldn't try to pretend Wright is so far off the wall by comparison. I've heard plenty of Christian conservatives talk about how God is going to send his wrath on us all, will punish or turn his back on America, etc.
Wright just comes from a long and generally honored tradition among Christian ministers. Many of these guys seem to think God is going to damn America. The only disagreement would seem to be why.
I do get what you're saying though about how some might give Wright a pass, or excuse him out of some misguided sense of fairness due to some racial inequity he might be dealing with from his past. You're right, that is actually condescending, when you get right down to it.
It is also unfair, in that he is helping to keep his own people mired in the past to a great extent. He should if anything encourage them to grow and develop as individuals and as positive role models and members of their communities.
No matter how he might try to do that in some other ways, he can't do much good by promoting class envy, race hatred, and resentments of the past. It's time to move on.
Plus, I agree that Obama should be legitimately questioned due to this and other past associations of his. It's all fair game. I think Rich actually made the same point in his article.
However, conservative Christians, whom by the way I do in fact agree with on so many other things, really don't have much ground to stand on here. They seem to have lost all sense of fairness when they attack Obama over the words of this radical preacher. Seen in the context of some of the words of their own more well-known ministers, they also seem to have lost all sense of irony.
Where do I find the book by McCain named after a John Hagee sermon and dedidacated to John Hagee?
Where'd John McCain sit for 20 years in John Hagee's church?
Where do I find pictures of John Hagee marrying McCain and his wife and baptizing their children?
What political organizations does John McCain sit on the board of and make sizeable donations to John Hagee's ministry from?
What evidence do you have to suggest that the Catholic Church historically might have been kinder to non-Catholics than John Hagee suggests in his theology?
When's the last time John Hagee accused the US government of creating AIDS to kill black people?
There is no double standard here, PT. There is no comparison.
This is one of those "Mother Jones" type revelations.
You know, just leftist enough to be too stupid for prime time.
Beamish-
"When's the last time John Hagee accused the US government of creating AIDS to kill black people?"
Gee, Beam, you got a good point there. I don't reckon Hagee ever did that. Neither have any of the other Christian conservative ministers. Nor have any of their followers, the ones that criticize Obama and Wright.
That's because they know better and they tell it like it is. The US government didn't do it-God did it. He didn't do it just to kill blacks either, he also wanted to kill all the gays.
Just wait till he really lets loose on us and damns America because of the abortion issue. Then we'll all know what's what, huh?
PT,
I just gotta ask.
How many times did your Dad fool you into drinking antifreeze by telling you it was lime Kool-Aid?
Seriously. Who is it you are damning as a hypocrite?
Who exactly is it that presently sits in a pew of a church that claims AIDS is God's wrath on fags that is out in public criticizing Jeremiah Wright and his 20 year indoctrination of Barack Obama?
Names, motherfucker. Gimme names.
Beamish, I can't play the name game. You know that old saying, if the shoe fits? Well, there you go. They are out there. You know they are out there.
They are out there saying and/or agreeing that God created AIDS to destroy blacks and/or gays, or to punish America for it's sins. They attack Wright for saying America did it, and charge that Wright, and by extension Obama, "hate America".
The untold secret here is plain for all to see. The real question to be answered has nothing to do with individual particular names among a sea of faces.
The real question to be answered is-why do Christian conservatives hate God?
You're going down, boy.
Beamish, I can't play the name game.
Precisely.
Now we're getting somewhere.
In what other ways does your post like substance and merit?
You know that old saying, if the shoe fits? Well, there you go. They are out there. You know they are out there.
They are out there saying and/or agreeing that God created AIDS to destroy blacks and/or gays, or to punish America for it's sins. They attack Wright for saying America did it, and charge that Wright, and by extension Obama, "hate America".
Who are "they?" How many micrograms of LSD-25 do I have to eat to see "them?"
Okay, there's Kansas Democrat Fred Phelps, and...?
The untold secret here is plain for all to see. The real question to be answered has nothing to do with individual particular names among a sea of faces.
The real question to be answered is-why do Christian conservatives hate God?
You're going down, boy.
You realize, of course, that you could have spared me the tedious process of discovering that you're an imbecilic twit by simply announcing that you're now a leftist.
"Who are "they?" How many micrograms of LSD-25 do I have to eat to see "them?""
You don't have to eat any acid, all you have to do is read conservative blogs, go to conservative Christian churches, and listen to conservative Christian ministers, for like, oh, I don't know, the last twenty five years now?
I could supply a list of names, but it wouldn't be fair to limit it to just a few, and I don't have time to list them all, even if I could remember all their names. One dimwit starts to look like all the rest after so long.
Here's the issue-you are denying that conservative Christians believe God created AIDS to punish gays, or blacks, or whoever (depending on which idiot you choose to listen to).
Since you seem to be denying this obvious fact, here is a companion fact-
you are a fucking liar.
"You realize, of course, that you could have spared me the tedious process of discovering that you're an imbecilic twit by simply announcing that you're now a leftist".
I never claimed to be a conservative, nor am I a leftist. I've always tried to make it clear I'm a political independent.
Of course, coming from a fucking moron that calls Pat Buchanan a leftist that is a meaningless charge at any rate.
Answer the question, ree-tard. Why do Christian conservatives hate God?
That's the spirit, Indy. Go ahead and make sweeping generalizations that dissolve into incoherent babbling.
But by God, keep pursuing a blanket smear of a broad spectrum of Christians who vote and try to convince them that they're just as ethically perverse as Obama's 20 year discipleship under Jeremiah Wright.
But don't forget to mention Obama's ethically perverse discipleship under Jeremiah Wright.
You don't want to lose context.
Maybe we can now move on to Obama running around retirement homes in America trying to convince the elderly to vote for him because McCain is old and therefore senile.
God bless leftist politicians in election years.
Normally you'd have to pay to see such riotously absurd farce and spectacle.
Or, maybe we can move on to how John McCain is suddenly trying to get the Latino vote, including people like LaRaza, by saying he will resurrect the "comprehensive immigration reform" bill after all, because he knows guys like you will hold your noses and let him get away with it.
Yawn.
Senile or on crack?
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