Tuesday, February 21, 2006

Prussian Blue And David Irving-Modern Martyrs?

So it has actually happenned-British author and historian David Irving has been sentenced to three years in an Austrian jail for denying the Holocaust. This assault on Freedom of Speech in a suppossedly culturally advanced European nation would be horrendous enough if it were perpetrated merely against an Austrian citizen, in an Austrian court. But the fact that this is an aspect of internatonal law, that a British citizen could be tried in an Austrian Court on such a trumped up charge, is staggering in it's implications. Regardless of how one feels or comes down on anti-Semitism, White Nationalism, Zionism, or the Holocaust, or any number of such issues, everyone should feel compelled to protest this ill-advised assault on civil liberties.

While all this has transpired, the white nationalist band Prussian Blue-two thirteen year old fraternal twins Lynx and Lamb Gaede-have just been the subject of an extensive profile and interview in the latest edition of Gentleman's Quarterly. Although I dread doing this, I am going to try and correctly include in the title of the post a link to the article. The link URL itself is about as long as the damn article so I will probably mess it up at least once-patience, please).

But these two concurrent events brings up an interesting hypothesis. Could the mother of the twins, April Gaede, be prosecuted acording to international law? Could the twins themselves be subject for prosecution when they "come of age"?

After all, it has been said the name "Prussian Blue" is the colloquial name for the pigment which should have been found in far more abundant quantities on the walls of the gas chambers where six million Jews were allegedly gassed, if this were indeed the case, as the gas contained as a component a compound that would have produced this color on the walls.

Finally, could the leaders of the White Nationalist movements, such as StormFront, the Ku Klux Klan, etc., be indicted-again, under international law-for denying the holocaust, in addition to any variety of their non-conformist, at times rather bizarre, beliefs?

It's a chilling thought, and one that incidentally plays probably right into the hands of any numbers of these leaders and their followers. After all, everybody loves, and needs, a martyr, hell, all the great world movements have at least one.

Let's take for example Jesus Christ, to many the ultimate martyr. Frankly, I have serious misgivings about him, the idea that he was the virgin born Son of God being the least of them. My main suspicion concerning him is that he was not an actual living, historical person, may in fact have originally been a pagan God, a pre-Judaized Galillean (yes, the Galilleans were originally pagans before being forcibly converted to Judaism by the Jewish King Aristobulus,less than one hundred years before the purported birth of Jesus). He may have in fact been a Gallillean version of Bacchus, or Osirus, or Adonis.etc. My little theory simply proposes that the original Priethood to the pagan God, having been forced underground immediately following the forced conversion to Judaism, re-emerged decades later with a suitably Judaized covering.

Okay, so what, one may ask, is the point? Simply put, is it possibly that I could one day be prosecuted for propounding and promoting this theory? After all,former President Clinton has according to some sources recently gone on record as saying that freedom of speech does not give anybody the right to insult other peoples religions. Well, couldn't my theory be interpreted as much an insult to mainstream Christianity, to say nothing of the more radical fringes of it, as a Danish cartoon of the prophet Muhammed wearing a turban with a bomb could be seen as an insult to Islam?

Where does it all end? In the GQ magazine article I cited, there is a brief mention of the Gaede sisters grandfather, Bill Gaede, a rancher who utilizes as his brand the swastika. It describes how one day, taking note of how a tree near his property was starting to attract daily and growing visitors due to it's suppssed resemblance to the Virgin Mary, took a chainsaw to the tree and cut it down.

Shocking? Hell, that sounds like something I might do over a bad weekend. Over a good one I might rope it off and charge admission to it, particularly if it were on my property, or I might insist that it is acutally an image of Athene. Whatever the case,would I be subject to prosecution on the grounds of religous insensitivity in some European Court? Not in this day and time one might assert. But the future is always just one day removed from the present, ultimatly, when you really stop to think about it. Just one step, one day, at a time.

I wish the Gaede twins well. They are cute, they are talented-though they need to work on it (but so did Ozzy) and more to the point, they got moxy (a Jewish word, I think, ironically). It's the moxy, unfortunately, that, while making them endearing, will also get them into trouble.

I'm still hoping they will eventually evolve beyond the white nationalist gig, which has limited entertainment value at best, though not that they should embrace a multi-culturalist ideal. They should remain true adherents to white European culture, and promoters of same, if that is and remains their inclinations. Nothing wrong with that, in fact, it is admirable, so long as it does evolve into the positive aspects of white culture,and away from the negative aspects of race baiting and xenophobia so typical of a great many of their fellow white nationalists.

But even if they do not evolve beyond this, what they say and write is still, or should be, protected speech. It is abhorent to me that they have been vicimized over the course of the last few months by evidently grown men and women who spew such vile hatred and venom their way they had to moderate their web pages. Even a photo blog of their little step-sister Dresden-a toddler-was subject to harrassment. One incredibly stupid person even went so far as to send the girls, over the Internet, a cartoon featuring a cookie monster stuffing a cookie into the vagina of a horrified young girl. They have been told they should be raped by blacks, they should be killed, etc.-all by people who, by the way, object to their "hate" and racist views. Incredible!

This is the kind of thinking that enables manipulation of the ignorant masses by governments intent on controlling "the sheeple". Feed into their fears, their hatreds, and their prejudices, and in this remarkably bizarre time in which we live, make them think they are on the side of goodness and morality, against hatred and prejudice. And it might be coming to a country near you, thanks to a concept called interntional law,and the international criminal courts.


eeore said...

I too am a pagan and therefore I say hello.... since it is always nice to meet a fellow traveller.

I really don't understand why you are so annoyed at this.

Since Irving is the victim of his own vanity.

The warrent for his arrest was issued in 1989. The Austrian govenrment could have applied for his extradition at any point since that date but has not.

He has been twice deported form the country and is subject of a banning order: just as he is from Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Canada and Germany.

Had he not decided to defy the Austrian authorites he would never have been arrested.

The Pagan Temple said...

Hi eeore, good to meet you as well. I visited one of your Blogs, and see that you are a poet. I'm surprised you don't see the implications of what is going on here. As right as you might be about Irving, just the idea the Austrian governemnt could have "applied for his extradition at any point" is chilling, to say the least. Just the idea they could have, even if they never did. And who's to say they never would anyway, if it suited their purposes, for whatever reason, to make whatever political statement they thought such a show trial,which is really all this was, would net them.

Hopefully, this will put a stop to whatever impetus any politicans in my country might have toward adhering to any so-called "World Court".

I hope you will give some careful thought to all this. One day in the future, you or I might well fall into the category of those it is politcally correct to target.

saagaksi said...

This prussian blue speculation is pissing me off. Oh it should have been found way more? Well guess what, IT DOESN'T WALWAYS FORM! If you know anything about chemistry and physics, it takes certain elements in order for certain chemical reactions to take place.

Also, I was trained in a classical music institute and I come from a family of talented singers (both opera and classical music), I can tell you that the twins have no future in music, simply because they are not talented. The reason why they're popular is the fact that their mother is attention hungry enough to promote them to an audience that sees them as sex objects (yes, I've seen the forums and several GROWN MEN said the 13-year-old girls are "sexy). In other words, it's about the porn, not about the music. And really, they just have no voice. Just look at the site banner. Looks like a porn banner to me. I'm saying this shit is done on purpose and their mother is living her dreams through the girls, keeping them (and their younger sibling, A BABY) in the spotlight regardless of the threats and harrassment they're subjects to. No sensible and responsible mother would sacrifice her children to her own principles. I'm saying she's unfit, and the girls need a parent way more stable and responsible. Not that kind of an attention seeker and child abuser.

saagaksi said...

Oh, and I forgot. They're Americans. No American should be the spokesperson of European culture. Why? Their cultural heritage is NOT European. They formed it in the US! It's a mere viking-fable, something to boost their miserable redneck egos. Nothing to do with being European. They should simply stop raping our culture, claiming it, and leave it to US, the TRUE Europeans. My guess is that they discovered this European-thing only cus the whole deal with the KKK just got old.

Yes, I'm whiter and I'm purer than them. Guess that makes me smarter too huh?

saagaksi said...

And anyone who denies the holocaust is a fucking retard. Even some Finns ended up in some of those camps, and anyone who denies their existence and in this manner downplays the seriousness of the historical FACT should be shot in the ass. Yes, they should, for accusing those people, the survivors, of lying.

What would 21st century Americans know about what happened in Europe before they were born, anyway.

The Pagan Temple said...

I think the whole point to the Prussian Blue color not being found was that it should have been found in more abundant quantities than what it was precisely because of the environment where this took place. I don't know, to tell you the truth, and it's of secondary importance at best to me anyway.

The important thing to me is the fact that American soldiers lost their lives fighting Hitler, and if you go back and read the first post I did about Prussian Blue, you will see that I criticized their admiration of Hitler precisely on these grounds.

But it's still their right to admire him, as unfortunate as I personally think that is. I'm hoping they will grow out of it in time, and I think a lot of it is for shock effect anyway.

As far as some people seeing them as sex objects, that's a reflection of the men, not the girls or the mother. So what if they were to present themselves in a more mainstream fashion? Just as entertainers,with no agenda, without any controversial attachments whatsoever? Guess what? There would still be sick creeps that would be atrracted to them, that would see them as "sex objects". So should all children be obliged to stay away from show business on these grounds? If they choose to go into in anyway, are their parents "unfit"? I don't think so. But because they promote a point of view you find abhorrent, you are applying a different standard to them than you would any other children who are "child stars" and their families, and that's just not right.

By the way, just so you'll know, I've never been on their forums, nor do I plan to. That's mainly Tuonelli, or Tuoni, anyway, and a few others that run those forums, they have little if anything to do with it. It's mainly a promotional tool. But if I were to go on it, or more to the point, if I could talk to them and their mother, I promise you they wouldn't like everything I had to say. But I'll be damned if I'm going to go on their sites, like some have done, and rant and rave and threaten them with violence and wish all kinds of horrible things to happen to them. People that do that kind of shit are as bad, if not worse, than the kind of people they are complaining the WN people are.

As far as their talent goes, I have to admit they are not my cup of tea. I listened to one song by them-I forget what it was-but it was unlistenable. But this was an earlier song, too. I hear they have improved, I don't know if they have or not. I haven't listened to them because to tell you the truth I'm not into that kind of music. I don't like the style of traditional folk music, to begin with, and number two, I couldn't sit still and listen to teenage girls singing about high school crushes, I'd have to get dangerously high first. And then I would like it even less.

On the other hand, they are thriteen years old, and younger than that when they started out. How good do you think Lennon and McCartney were when they were twelve?

The Pagan Temple said...

As for the whole European thing, what's wrong with a person being proud of their heritage? What's wrong with wanting to promote that? I think it's a good thing myself. I consider myself an American first and foremost, but I also know that I am of European descent, and I am proud of that heritage.

I'll be the first to admit there's a lot about ancient Europe I don't know, on the other hand I know more than most about it, and I don't allow myself to romanticize it. I see it for what it is. The good and the bad and the ugly.

Like it or not, Saaga, white Americans are descended from white Europeans, therefore that is our heritage, as much as it is yours. The only legitimate claim you have over us is that you are more *modern* European, something no American can lay claim to. But there is a big, big difference between modern European culture and adherence and study of ancient European culture. You're comparing apples and pomegranates.

And no, I personally don't feel that I am better or smarter than non-whites. I can't or won't speak for anybody else in that regard, other than to say it's a stupid philosophy. By the same token, I sure as hell don't feel the need to agonize over the suppossed crimes of the "evil white race" and I damned sure don't think I owe anybody anything based on my race. I simply have nothing to apologize for, and so I will not. Nor will I stand by and put up with being called a "racist" merely for wanting to promote, in America, a positive view of white European culture for those of us of European descent.

Unfortunately, there are many here in this country who at least tacitly imply that such a promotion is racist. Some come right out and say it. That's the controversy that brews over here, and has for some time.White culture and American history has been denigrated, and there are those of us who resent it. It has little if anything to do with "the Vikings did this or the Vikings did that."

It's more politcal than that. There are even factions that say America was in the wrong in the Mexican American War, and that American schoolchildren should be taught that. And I say bullshit. But that's what this is really all about. It's about special interest gorups promoting their own narrow self-serving views, in this case in order to placate the immigrant Mexican population and to promote such things as open borders between Mexico and the U.S.

That's what this shit is really all about, Europe really has little to do with it. Americans who are of white European descent have simply had enough, and we want our cultural heritage appreciated, and preserved. Sometimes, some people go way too far and it turns into true racism and race-baiting and cultural conflict. I am oppossed to that, I think all races and cultures, and beliefs, should be respected. But it's not just the white adocates that are at fault here, there are extremes who are advocates of all races and cultrues that are equally at fault. They are allowed to criticize "the evil whites", but if whites criticized them, they are "racists". And I just ain't going for it.

The Pagan Temple said...

As far as your last post, about the Holocaust, like I said earlier, i don't know and to me it is incidental to the fact that Amrican soldiers lost their lives fighting Hitler after European leaders-as usual-dropped the ball and alowed him to get stronger than he should have been allowed to become.

The fact that America made this sacrifice, and corrected this grievous mistake, gives us the right to rant and rave or express our views on the matter, whatever those views might be. And yes, that includes questioning the legitimacey of the Holocaust.

I've never heard it suggested there were no death camps, or even that jews were not killed in them. Where did you dig that up from? The only thing I've heard questioned is the numbers.It doesn't really matter in a sense, whether it was 6,000,000 or 6,000, it was an appalling crime either way. But it's still of secondary importance to me to the fact of the loss of American lives and treasure, regardless of the numbers. If it weren't for America,there may well be *no* Jews now.

By the way, why did Hitler hate the Jews so much? Why did he want them all destroyed? That seems to be yet another controversy, one you may not be allowed to discuss in some quarters. Better be careful how you answer now, I'd hate to see you hauled up to an Austrian court and prosecuted in the next show trial.

saagaksi said...

"As for the whole European thing, what's wrong with a person being proud of their heritage? "
-No, if you're not European (CULTURALLY!!!) you cannot promote European culture. It is not possible to be born and raised in the US and then claim European culture. Genes, maybe... but not culture. That is something that is part of us Europeans, not American wannabe-Europeans.

"So should all children be obliged to stay away from show business on these grounds? If they choose to go into in anyway, are their parents "unfit"? I don't think so. But because they promote a point of view you find abhorrent, you are applying a different standard to them than you would any other children who are "child stars" and their families, and that's just not right."
-Not every child in show business is threatened and turned into a sex object. Sure, the mom may do what she wants, as can the girls, but I'm saying that the wellbeing of your children should be more important than making a political stand.

"I'd hate to see you hauled up to an Austrian court and prosecuted in the next show trial."
-That's why I don't go to Austria to break their laws and then cry about it in the media. He had it coming, and I can't deny being spiteful about it. Maybe next time he wants to provoke people he won't do it in a place where he'll have his ass locked up for it.

The Pagan Temple said...

First point-nope, no wriggle room for you. I'm not talking about Americans promoting European culture. I'm talking abotu Americans promoting pride in their European *heritage*, a different thing all together. We have our own culture, though it does stem from that ancient heritage. No reasonable person is claiming that white Americans are the legitimate advocates of *modern* European culture, I know I sure don't. I do however promote recognition, respect, and pride, in our European ancestral *heritage*. Again, a big difference.

Point two-So who is in the wrong, the ignoramuses who harras these girls and their family? Or is it the girls and their family for not kowtowing and giving in to them? And yes, other child stars are turned into sexual objects it's just not as well known or recognized. They may not be overtly threatened as much, but they certainly can't love a normal life, with any expectation of any kind of privacy or security outside of the kind it takes a lot of money to buy. But there are certainly numerous people that would easily do them harm, given the opportunity, and in a variety of different ways, sexually and otherwise.

Point three-you may not have to go there. The Austrians are already going on about how the President of Iran should be arrested and brought to Austria and prosecuted because of his denials of the Holocaust. So when was he ever in Austria?

Let's see, is that three points? Yep-

Game! Set! Match!

No wonder our womens hockey team beat out yours for the bronze. Must have been that genetic heritage being reinvigorated by the ice.

saagaksi said...

No wonder our guys beat your pansies. We're gonna play for gold - and you're not.

Lemme think about this "sacrificing my kids for the sake of having the right to do so"- deal. Maybe one day people will realise that it may be just morally disgraceful. I never said the harassers were not guilty. Of course they are. And so is the girl's mother - for keeping her kids vulnerable. She's been warned, but she's too damn redneck to get it. Sure I could walk around downtown in a bikini, and then say people are doing wrong when they harass me. I could say "I did nothing wrong, I had every right to do so, and me getting harassed is not my own fault."

saagaksi said...

I guess that is to say that if I ever become a mother, I hope to know better than plastering the internet with pictures of my vulnerable children, without them having much say about it, for people to abuse. I would also know better and protect my kids if they ever were threatened by some way I had control over, instead of being more attention-hungry and using my kids to get the attention I would like to have for myself. THAT much I would do to protect my kids.

saagaksi said...

I guess it's about priorities. Safety and the right to childhood weigh more than race philosophies... in my scale anyway.

The Pagan Temple said...

Somehow in all this you seem to have missed the entire point of my post. I didn't do this as a charter member of the Prussian Blue Fan Club. I did this as a fanatical, some might say rabid, believer in the First Amendment. Which of course means Freedom of Speech.And Freddom of The Press. These are things I believe in dearly, and don't take kindly to any encroachments on them.

Yet, the very people that attack the Gaedes and people like Irving with such visceral hatred are the very birds that like to hide behind the facade of belief in freedom, and in equal rights and, incredibly, freedom of speech and freedom of the press. Notice when I refer to my beliefs in them, I capitalize them. When I refer to their "beliefs" in them, I stick to the lowercase they deserve.

The Bill Of Rights of my countries Constitution is something I take with the same degree of religous reverence a believing Christian might claim to take the Ten Commandments in. And I believe in it consistently, even when it comes to philosophies I do not agree with. I have to, for if I do not, then my beliefs are hollow.

That's the point.

Congratulations on your mens hockey team beating out ours for the gold competition. Who was their coach? Austrian? (Just kidding)

saagaksi said...

I didn't miss the point. I just had/have other opinions on the topic.

One of them was that I wouldn't sacrifice the safety of my kids for the sake of freedom of speech. I wouldn't feel the need to prove it exists. That is all.

Have a nice weekend, I'm off for some time now.

The Pagan Temple said...

Aaaahhhhh, yes, the old "for the good of the children" argument. As in "for the good of the children" you shouldn't be pagan, or Wiccan, or any other non-mainstream religion. Or, perhaps, "for the good of the children" you shoudn't be any religion besides Christian-or Catholic. You certainly shouldn't be atheist. Just like "for the good of the children" you should always be anti-gun, and you should never under any circumstances raise them to be Pro-Choice, they should always be taught that aborton is wrong. After all, they just might not ever be able to get along in the world, if they are taught the "wrong" views and beliefs.

Yes, I see now, I understand perfectly. The old classic "for the good of the children" reasoning by which tyrants have enslaved the masses and stripped them of their basic freedoms and liberties from the most ancient times all the way up till now.

Yeah, okay then, I get it.

Anonymous said...

Im white and at times im racist, but these two trashy cunts should be fed to a jailhouse of pedophiles and raped till bloody.

The Pagan Temple said...

Okay, Anonymous, I have a question for you. A few, really. The first one is, "why"? The second one is, do you really know them, or know anything about them, other than what has been reported in the MSM, and circulated over the Internet.

Finally, even if what is said about them is true, don't you think that's a pretty vile, disgusting extreme to wish on two little girls? When you were fourteen, didn't you possibly have attitudes and beliefs you might be ashamed of now?